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Poster: Lou Davenport Date: Aug 25, 2007 4:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Wherever you go, there you are

Having diverted myself with the soap-opera threads on Deadhook the last few days (Dire's poignant apology and all the emoticon hugging in response damn near brought a tear to my eye), the thought has crossed my mind that all the LMA folks jumping onto Deadhook recently appear to have brought with them the very emotional turmoil that (I think) led them to seek out an alternative forum in the first place.

It's like Los Angelinos moving to Denver to escape LA, and turning Denver into another LA in doing so (and hey, no offense intended to Denver or LA residents, even if some of the latter are Dodgers fans).

Maybe we carry turmoil around with us like an atmosphere, and we can never escape it. Even if so, you've got to love DB for reaching down into this yawning pit in a vain attempt to redeem some of us sinners.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Aug 25, 2007 5:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

"Even if so, you've got to love DB for reaching down into this yawning pit in a vain attempt to redeem some of us sinners."

nicely put Lou

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 25, 2007 8:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

I will say that I find this all much ado about nothing. As everyone knows, all we need to do is get back to discussing the music and dealing with the drama like all other folks do--one on one. Ranting and raving, sure, cussing and swearing, to be expected. Hearing from Ashes and CLIFF? Made my day.

So, Lou, and Arb, I think you are right on...DB's heart is in the right place, and we all love her for it, but what happened to DHook was, just as Lou said, predictable once the likes of us showed up. And you know what, I think they are the better for that...not for all the drama we experience here, but enough that comes with exposure to what constitutes real world experience with all the warts.

Why do I say this when I am the one that has espoused 'control' and playing nice? For exactly the reason that Dire made clear; the most blatant disregard for what I thought was the essence of DH came thru in the post about LMA folks going home...if that post can 'get thru' then it means there really isn't the control we imagined was in place. And that is probably for the best. The folks involved all chimed in, and I think it is moving forward and best put behind one and all now...

So, we have to return to what we always knew to be true to begin with: we are on our own, and this place, and that other place are only going to be what we all make of it.

1968 is all you really need. I have bored you all, and am beginning to bore them all with that mantra, but I also will say this: folks like huntr and DB prove that having all this fun (ie, forum interactions or forum wars) is more than worth it...



This post was modified by William Tell on 2007-08-26 03:37:30

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Poster: BryanE Date: Aug 25, 2007 7:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

It's all a tempest in a teapot as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, there is xenophobia happening at both sites. The song does say, "The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter either side of the hill," but I'm not sure that's always true. And then again, those of us who have signed up at Deadhook have not been welcomed by every person there. Almost everyone, and those who have been positively responding to our presence have expressed themselves with great kindness and comradeship, but you can't expect open arms from all whom you meet in any situation.

Personally, I'm getting checking out the discussion there because I have always been very disheartened by the clutter of harsh commentary that I find here. The "smi2les" controversy and its accompanying suspicions of people who post using multiple screen names, threads that focus on The Grateful Dead's worst show ever, or worst song ever, or worst encore, or how anything they ever did after Pigpen died was irrelevant, constant complaining about free downloads being discontinued, the increasing amount of personal sniping that transpires between participants---it all leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

I've made some really fine acquaintances here, and maintain great respect for those folks who remain true to the vision of acceptance and warmth that many of us felt at Grateful Dead concerts and within the Dead Head community in general. I don't intend to sever the ties I have made here, either. But I do feel that criticism and disdainful remarks directed at those of us who have chosen to give Deadhook a try is a misguided focus of one's concerns. Within the big picture of it all, though, opinions regarding the why's and wherefore's of a person's decision to submit opinions and thoughts at the LMA Grateful Dead Forum or Deadhook pale in comparison to larger issues in the world. When put into the perspective of their relative importance, things like this just really don't matter all that much, do they?

It was just a little less than a year ago when my wife discovered Internet Archive. She brought it to my attention, and I was elated to learn that there was a place where hearing Grateful Dead concerts on our computer was only a couple of clicks away. Shortly thereafter, I learned that I could actually communicate with a whole slew of folks other than I who obviously still put great value on the immense joy that The Grateful Dead provided us, and clearly still provide. But it wasn't long after that, either, when it was made evident to me how high of a priority it is for many people to continually find fault within the Dead's efforts. And they certainly have the right to do that, just as much as I have the right to express dismay at their doing so. Anybody who badmouths the folks that I care about should not expect me to remain quiet about it. But it's not any fun and I don't like finding myself in a position where I feel it is incumbent upon me to respond as such. Nonetheless, I need to remain true to myself, and the fulfillment The Grateful Dead have given me for more than three decades does not merely suggest that I stand my ground in defense of them, it absolutely demands it. Sooner or later, though, one grows tired of fighting windmills, and I feel it's in my best interest to test the waters elsewhere, maybe just to see if it's still fun to talk with others about The Grateful Dead with the hope that I'm not in some minority that is not populated by naysayers.

Not that anyone should really give a shit one way or the other what I do . . .

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Poster: mcglone Date: Aug 25, 2007 7:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

like all ‘controversies’, be it don imus, michael vick or the donald vs rosey this too shall pass - it always does! we nurture drama out here and my only guess as to why is we simply have too much time on our hands. perhaps it’s a by-product of our freedom? we can’t get out of the way of the moment despite ourselves. we know it doesn’t matter, and ultimately we know better, yet we keep coming back for more, working ourselves into a tizzy over what? ‘2’ vs rich? or in this case what’s fast becoming LMA’ very own shelbyville, DH… please! so everyone didn’t lay out the fine china and silverware, boo hoo! i’ve seen this joint snap at newbies. i guess the lesson is NOT so many worlds have changed since we first left home. i thank the musical gods the GOGD didn’t take themselves nearly as seriously as we do or not much would have gotten done.

ian

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 25, 2007 8:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

"i thank the musical gods the GOGD didn’t take themselves nearly as seriously as we do or not much would have gotten done."

Me too.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Aug 25, 2007 11:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

"It's all a tempest in a teapot as far as I'm concerned"

weird, i said the EXACT same thing about the whole situation to another poster here

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Poster: BryanE Date: Aug 26, 2007 11:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

I didn't read that post of yours, Arbuthnot, but I like that expression. Some say "teacup."

And then there was the "No, Really . . . " thread I started a number of days back. Here's the link, not because of the focus of the discussion, but because of the reason I titled it that (I wasn't completely satisfied with the responses it got, but so what):

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=144071



This post was modified by BryanE on 2007-08-26 18:15:01

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 25, 2007 8:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

A well written, heart felt post, Bryan. And for that, it deserves respect.

Hang in there, and I will see you here or there, and be the better for it.

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Aug 25, 2007 9:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

BryanE: I most certainly don't give a shit about you or your thoughts. --- AshesRising


Bryan: did you attend the 1981-12-05 show (Market Square Arena)?

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Poster: BryanE Date: Aug 26, 2007 10:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

Ashes-
"I most certainly don't give a shit about you or your thoughts." I would expect that from someone who has never taken a moment to extend a whit of goodwill toward anybody. Why not try, oh, I don't know, sharing some of your Garcia collection with the world by burning some CD's, then mailing them out to unwitting recipients for a change? Jeez Louise!

Never went to Market Square, but some friends in school did make it up to Indy for that show. Isn't that the one with C.C. Rider going into double-time tempo at the end?

And am I the only one who always feels a little clumsy spelling it "C.C." Rider? Because I know that's how it's recognized, but sticklers about blues, such as myself, also know that it should be written "See, See, Rider."

See, see, rider
See what you done done

It ain't about somebody named C.C. It's talking 'bout that little ol' rider, a common nickname in blues songs for a woman with a decidedly liberal sexuality.

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Aug 26, 2007 2:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

BryanE: yeah, buddie, you nailed it... I heard it during last night's GROK -- one of those tunes/versions I can keep hearing over-and-over, again-and-again. I wonder why they did the double-time tempo on that evening -- and then I don't think it was ever played that way again(?)

(I feel most comfortable writing it as "See, See Rider?" ..as in the question, "See what you have done?")

Did I ever tell you I had Robert Plant in the front seat of my cab back in the mid-1980's? He invited me to his show at the Worcester Centrum that evening ("the limo picks us up at 6:00 so be at the hotel if you wanna go..." Told him I had to work..........to see Jerry. He loved my response --- was howling with laughter and gave me the "thumbs up" as I drove away.)

--- AshesRising

This post was modified by AshesRising on 2007-08-26 21:14:49

This post was modified by AshesRising on 2007-08-26 21:16:32

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Aug 26, 2007 2:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

ashes!!! we are grokin come on in!!!! brother 1-22-78!!!

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Poster: BryanE Date: Aug 26, 2007 4:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

Yeah, you did tell me the Plant story, but it is still way, way cool.

Jamming out to the Market Square tape inspired somebody back then to come up with the title "Psycho C.C. Rider," but I thought that was stupid.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 26, 2007 11:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are, unless you're confused

Hey B--is that really how it was spelled originally? I am embarrassed to say that way, way back when, someone told me it was about a 'person' that went by those initials ("CC") and naively I went for it. Have even argued with folks about it (hhmmm, hope I don't have to admit I was wrong now...). Assume I could google it and find out, but just thought I would ask.

Least of all--I take it you and Ashes are having a bit of fun here?

This post was modified by William Tell on 2007-08-26 18:07:37

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Poster: BryanE Date: Aug 26, 2007 11:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are, unless you're confused

Forgot to mention, too, that Pigpen talked about his "rider" in a lot of his raps. Plant used the term in one or two Led Zeppelin songs, as well

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Aug 26, 2007 2:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are, unless you're confused

BryanE: No idea if you are interested in not, but Spencer Davis (and Hornsby) played "See, See.." and others back in 1989 (1989-12-10 - Great Western LA Forum)
http://www.archive.org/details/gd89-12-10.sbd.ladner.5451.sbeok.shnf

(I am on dial-up and cannot access it, however the reviews look promising. If you decide to check it out, let me know if it's worthwhile.)

--- AshesRising

[As I have written in emails on countless occassions, cats like you and William Tell are true friends -- the "real deal" --- and my world is brighter due to that fact.]

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Poster: BryanE Date: Aug 26, 2007 11:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are, unless you're confused

Yeah. Ma Rainey did a "See See Rider Blues" back in the 20's.

And I hope he and I are just having a little fun. We both have a tendency to forget to type in emoticons when we're being sardonic.

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Aug 26, 2007 12:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

Lou Davenport: do you know anything about this dude:
"Moscow avant-garde composer Nikita Golyshev ("CD-R")?

http://www.archive.org/details/electrosound.ru_es25

Thanks, --- AshesRising

This post was modified by AshesRising on 2007-08-26 07:36:59

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Poster: Lou Davenport Date: Aug 26, 2007 12:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

Nope! Just dl'd it. Interesting sounds but I don't much go in for that sort of dance-beat electronic stuff. How did you come by it?

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Aug 26, 2007 1:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

Lou Davenport: Thank you for taking the time to respond. ..It was on the LMA's home-page at 3:45am this morning. There is something about the cd (album?) cover that grabbed hold of my mind.. I read some stuff and listened to a little as I was trying to re-connect to a GROK. -- Thanks again for taking the time to respond; you web site is phenomenal --- AshesRising

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Poster: Lou Davenport Date: Aug 26, 2007 1:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wherever you go, there you are

Hey, I'm glad you like the web site. It's been rewarding for me too (in a not-for-revenue way).